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W.E.
Member
Posts: 1112

Speed - do you employ any evaluation tests, similar to Max Jones or Winckler/Tolbert type batteries during developmental (non-comp) periods in the training year?


if so, what generally have you found to correlate with ascending performances in both short and long sprints?   Also do you have test results revealing the differences between dominant isometric and standard isotonic type lifting?

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February 18, 2017 at 4:36 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6095

scottmitchell74 at February 18, 2017 at 11:20 AM

How did it appear she did with her race model in the relays and what leg did she run? Of course not knowing what her coach has her doing in practice or the race model. I do know as W.E. indicated speed reserve, that will require strength and certainly there are things she can do meet day to help with that.

Doing isometric work right before her race will help with muscle fiber recruitment, also CNS stimulation and even doing a few shot hops helps with stored energy, stretch reflex.



She ran the third leg. We talked about it, and she ran her first 200m too slow.

So with the isometric movements...when you say "right before" the race...minutes before? The last thing before geting in the blocks? Thanks for helping me through this phase of continued learning.



Typically what results in the first 200m being too slow, is getting out too slow, not establishing a good, solid pace out of the blocks entering the first curve. Again consider the ATP, but also consider the body is at rest at the start, dealing with that inertia, one of the reason blocks and/or a crouch start is used. I think so many 400m runners  are afraid to be be aggressive at the start believing they will expend too much energy. What I tell anyone who will listen is this, when do you have the most energy, are the freshest? At the start, take advantage of that, because once you start and get going, there is no turning back. Try to get as far out in the 400m early covering distance, so that you have less to cover as you are expending energy anyway.

Scott, my athletes do this right before their race, heat begins, it takes a minute to do this, body weight squats, 10-15 seconds, stay in that squat position for 10 seconds isometric, 10 short hops jumps, if there is a fence or wall, wall sit, holding one leg up and out, 10 seconds each leg. You can feel the fibers being recruited and not much if any strain on the CNS. I also if there isn't a wall have my athletes squat and are back to back, replicating a wall. I even do work for CNS stimulation to,hand clap and have my athletes sweep their arms on the sound of the clap, also we use a lightweight kettle bell and do kettle bell swiings, when I say light I mean 5 lbs, just enough for CNS stimulation and not too much to strain.  We do this, each arm 10 times.

Typically what results in the first 200m being too slow, is getting out too slow, not establishing a good, solid pace out of the blocks entering and exiting the first curve. Again consider the ATP, but also consider the body is at rest at the start, dealing with that inertia, one of the reason blocks and/or a crouch start is used. I think so many 400m runners are afraid to be be aggressive at the start believing they will expend too much energy. What I tell anyone who will listen is this, when do you have the most energy, are the freshest? At the start, take advantage of that, because once you start and get going, there is no turning back. Try to get as far out in the 400m early covering distance, so that you have less to cover as you are expending energy anyway.

Scott, my athletes do this right before their race, heat begins, it takes a minute to do this, body weight squats, 10-15 seconds, stay in that squat position for 10 seconds isometric, 10 short hops jumps, if there is a fence or wall, wall sit, holding one leg up and out, 10 seconds each leg. You can feel the fibers being recruited and not much if any strain on the CNS. I also if there isn't a wall have my athletes squat and are back to back, replicating a wall. I even do work for CNS stimulation to,hand clap and have my athletes sweep their arms on the sound of the clap, also we use a lightweight kettle bell and do kettle bell swiings, when I say light I mean 5 lbs, just enough for CNS stimulation and not too much to strain. We do this, each arm 10 times.

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For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

February 18, 2017 at 8:23 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6095

W.E. at February 18, 2017 at 4:36 PM

Speed - do you employ any evaluation tests, similar to Max Jones or Winckler/Tolbert type batteries during developmental (non-comp) periods in the training year?


if so, what generally have you found to correlate with ascending performances in both short and long sprints?   Also do you have test results revealing the differences between dominant isometric and standard isotonic type lifting?

W.E. no, I don't test, never been a test guy, for me it has always been about the clock, putting my athletes on the clock, even my jumpers. I actually when my jumpers do run thru's, I time those to know where they are and so we both know what we're working with.


I don't oppose test, just have never really done them on any consistent bases.

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

February 20, 2017 at 9:14 AM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1112

Speedfirst at February 20, 2017 at 9:14 AM

W.E. at February 18, 2017 at 4:36 PM

Speed - do you employ any evaluation tests, similar to Max Jones or Winckler/Tolbert type batteries during developmental (non-comp) periods in the training year?


if so, what generally have you found to correlate with ascending performances in both short and long sprints?   Also do you have test results revealing the differences between dominant isometric and standard isotonic type lifting?

W.E. no, I don't test, never been a test guy, for me it has always been about the clock, putting my athletes on the clock, even my jumpers. I actually when my jumpers do run thru's, I time those to know where they are and so we both know what we're working with.


I don't oppose test, just have never really done them on any consistent bases.

Appreciated the response here Coach.   I intend to start a new thread discussing this a little more for feedback on what I'm doing in this area.   Where this helps particularly is with combined events athletes.


Getting back to the topic...when is your next meet?   And how often do you switch up events for your sprinters?   I do realize that winning the comps perhaps has the highest priority in most cases.

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February 20, 2017 at 12:28 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6095

W.E. at February 20, 2017 at 12:28 PM

Speedfirst at February 20, 2017 at 9:14 AM

W.E. at February 18, 2017 at 4:36 PM

Speed - do you employ any evaluation tests, similar to Max Jones or Winckler/Tolbert type batteries during developmental (non-comp) periods in the training year?


if so, what generally have you found to correlate with ascending performances in both short and long sprints?   Also do you have test results revealing the differences between dominant isometric and standard isotonic type lifting?

W.E. no, I don't test, never been a test guy, for me it has always been about the clock, putting my athletes on the clock, even my jumpers. I actually when my jumpers do run thru's, I time those to know where they are and so we both know what we're working with.


I don't oppose test, just have never really done them on any consistent bases.

Appreciated the response here Coach.   I intend to start a new thread discussing this a little more for feedback on what I'm doing in this area.   Where this helps particularly is with combined events athletes.


Getting back to the topic...when is your next meet?   And how often do you switch up events for your sprinters?   I do realize that winning the comps perhaps has the highest priority in most cases.

W.E. we actually had our 2nd meet this past Saturday and as it turned out, it was held outdoors, due to the fact we were supposed to host it indoors at our 160m flat track.......we had some structural damage in the fieldhouse and one of the visitings schools was so kind to hold it at their outdoor facility at really the last minute.

Can you believe outdoors, Feb. 18th in Chicago, it was beautiful, 70 degree's. We ran the 55m, instead of the 100m,  so we really kept an indoor schedule, yet outdoors. We once again came out on top of another quad meet, as expected. We were again the standard of which the other teams were aiming for.  It's still ealry obviously, so as always in this point of the season, it's about working on things, detecting flaws, correcting the flaws and moving forward. Rino didn't compete, he mentioned feeling some slight  tightness in his hamstring.


I do have some quality depth in my short sprinters, so the beat went on, it was business as usual, since the meet was held outdoors, those responsible for posting results stated because he meet was outdoors, they won't recognize the times. That is very odd to me, in that teams in the southern part of the state  will have earier outdoors meets than we do, they get their times not only posted be verified, but no biggie. I will get some times to you, as it was FAT.


We have a big invite, Lord willing this Saturday, the same invite Tyron ran his state leading 6.43 55m last year, in which we finished 2nd as a team to the pereninal 2A state champions, Cahokia

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For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

February 20, 2017 at 1:44 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1112

Has Ja'Mari Ward moved on?

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February 21, 2017 at 11:39 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6095

W.E. at February 21, 2017 at 11:39 AM

Has Ja'Mari Ward moved on?

Yes W.E. Ja' Mari has moved on, he is at Missouri. I don't believe Ja' Mari has competed yet, not certain if that knee is 100% from last year.

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For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

February 21, 2017 at 12:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply

scottmitchell74
Member
Posts: 426

So practice is going much better this week. Brianna run a 28 low on Monday in the 200 in tennis shoes and 62 seconds in the 400 today, so she's feeling better about things. She got a big boost of excitement because her coach is going to try her out on the 200 and 4 x 2 (as well as the 4x4). I'm excited because I'd like to see her get in some early season 200s to sharpen her for the 400. In fact, I LOVE what he has her doing Saturday. She'll get the speed work of the 200 and get the conditioning work of the 4x4. Will keep you posted.



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"You there on the motorbike...sell me one of your melons!"

February 22, 2017 at 6:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1112

scottmitchell74 at February 22, 2017 at 6:56 PM

So practice is going much better this week. Brianna run a 28 low on Monday in the 200 in tennis shoes and 62 seconds in the 400 today, so she's feeling better about things. She got a big boost of excitement because her coach is going to try her out on the 200 and 4 x 2 (as well as the 4x4). I'm excited because I'd like to see her get in some early season 200s to sharpen her for the 400. In fact, I LOVE what he has her doing Saturday. She'll get the speed work of the 200 and get the conditioning work of the 4x4. Will keep you posted.



That's good news certainly. I trust with this comes some under distance (absolute speed) preparation work, to further build that cache of speed reserve, as well.

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February 22, 2017 at 11:24 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6095

Good to hear that Scott and I will keep my eyes pealed and looking forward to seeing the progress of Brianna and the team!!

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

February 24, 2017 at 9:58 AM Flag Quote & Reply

scottmitchell74
Member
Posts: 426

Brianna's first 200 in 22.5 months...a 27.73. Not bad, but certainly room for improvement. Slow out of the blocks, and not a very good curve, but down the last 100 ran well/tall and made up some ground. That was the prelim...don't know the result of the final time wise, as it wasn't listed at meet...but she stood STRAIGHT UP out of the blocks (in a rush/panic, we had a long talk about it) and then was straining too hard to play cacth-up.

So, something to work on. On her 4x2 they picked up a 3rd place and she ran leadoff leg 27x (coach timed).

--

"You there on the motorbike...sell me one of your melons!"

February 26, 2017 at 1:10 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6095

Scott thanks for the update, what it sounds like to me, real simple not doing what needs to be done in practice to have a race model for the meet and this might even include the blocks. What I mean is consistency, having consistency breeds confidence and confidence breeds success, or as some will tell you, success breeds confidence.

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For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

February 27, 2017 at 11:33 AM Flag Quote & Reply

scottmitchell74
Member
Posts: 426

Yeah. Every day after practice I ask her about what the coach has them doing, his interaction with them, etc...there isn't much. It's frustrating. Any thoughts on things I can do with her during the season? I don't want to over-train her/over-burden her CNS...but I'd like to do something. I'd hate to see her Jr. season not be all that it can be.

--

"You there on the motorbike...sell me one of your melons!"

February 27, 2017 at 11:57 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6095

scottmitchell74 at February 27, 2017 at 11:57 AM

Yeah. Every day after practice I ask her about what the coach has them doing, his interaction with them, etc...there isn't much. It's frustrating. Any thoughts on things I can do with her during the season? I don't want to over-train her/over-burden her CNS...but I'd like to do something. I'd hate to see her Jr. season not be all that it can be.

Scott, sure there is something you can do and it won't even be close to overtraining and/or CNS over load.


For the blocks and if she is going to be leadoff in the 4x2, or at times in the 4x4 or using them in both the 200 and 400m. The start isn't as crucial in both these events, what you can do is have her at home do  four point crouch starts just a few, a couple days a weeks, this will help with her confidence, her muscle memorization and again not be that demanding on the CNS.


By a few a mean 5-6, going out to about 20m,  coming up after the 4th step, because you need to be able to start picking up the curve at this point and you don't want to be bent over on the curve, you need to be upright to deal with the inertia, centrifugal force of the curve.

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For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

February 27, 2017 at 12:59 PM Flag Quote & Reply

scottmitchell74
Member
Posts: 426

Thank you so much, Speed. We will do those. It's a plan.

--

"You there on the motorbike...sell me one of your melons!"

February 27, 2017 at 1:34 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6095

scottmitchell74 at February 27, 2017 at 1:34 PM

Thank you so much, Speed. We will do those. It's a plan.

Scott, I don't know if you heard of the Stanford glove, what I do is have my athletes to help with accelerating their cool down, as we consider over training and really this speaks to the recovery. My athletes place their hands in a bag of ice and also have ice on their neck. Below is the link for the glove.


http://news.stanford.edu/2012/08/29/cooling-glove-research-082912/

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For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

February 27, 2017 at 3:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1112

Coach Keven:

How did your last go?   What can you report on latest PRs?

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March 3, 2017 at 2:46 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6095

W.E.  Here are the results from our last meet, the same meet from last year when Tyron ran his 6.43. 3 of my tops sprinters didn't compete at this meet this year, impacting my sprints of course and 4x2, but I have enough depth. We once again finshed seocnd in this very competitive 16 team meet. We have a meet against our conference rival tonight, who happened to have won this meet, We won once again on the frosh soph level. W.E. I am certainly working on things, still implementing concepts, looking at the big picture (May), again putting the pieces in place.


http://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/MeetResults.aspx?Meet=290010

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For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

March 3, 2017 at 3:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1112

Thanks for the referenced site.   I'll look-up Athletic.net periodically to check on the team comp status.


I'm chuckling here as a result to reading the depth of your team, particularly the sprint/hurdle/jump group.   Your freshman-sophomore talent is fantastic!


If you've planned it out, what meets during the spring have you earmarked for high performance measures?

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March 3, 2017 at 3:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6095

W.E. the blessings of having depth and having some quality, but then harnessing and developing this talent, is my challenge. Getting them to understand the standards this program has and how they must work to 1) achieve those standards, then build on them. Some of them have experienced success on the lower level, yet didn't understand was is required of them to go to the next level, another level. So as I'm sure you know, it is a rude awakening, one that should be humbling as well.

The meet last night was scored and the our rival didn't field their top team by any stretch of the imagination. I used the meet to work on somethings, Rino was back and only ran a hand-timed 55m, he slipped coming out of the blocks and still ran a 6.4, in only his 2nd 55m of the year.


As far as meets in the spring earmarked, the very first one is April 8th, a relay meet and then the following week later on the 15th, then the 21st and 29th of April. Then May 5th is our outdoor conference championship as we then look ahead to sectionals come May 18th.

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For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

March 4, 2017 at 4:28 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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