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W.E.
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Posts: 1118

Some thoughts on ground contact and lower body levers from Jon Goodwin during his UKA presentation last fall.

http://www.blip.tv/file/4989818

 

April 11, 2011 at 4:05 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
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Posts: 6099

Thanks for the video, certainly when you look at the number of steps Bolt took in Berlin and Beijing, it concurs with Goodwins comments on contact length and contact time.

As speed coaches, wer're constantly trying to bridge the gap, find the balance between air and ground time. I will  post some video's, as well as some supporting material inline with what Goodwin expounded on, in particular as it relates to the hips, knees, ankles and foot.

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

April 25, 2011 at 8:01 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1118

Yes Speed, as Mike Young surmised in his Speed presentation, it all fits.  Consistent with many prominent theories of the day.

I particularly find all this info a good fit with Jeremy Richmond's training assessment model.   Will know alot more this summer when I put my plan into action!

Look forward to seeing your examples and text on the subject.

April 26, 2011 at 9:57 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6099

W.E., I have been putting into practice some principles discussed here, again I will add more content to this discussion. In particular working on glute, ham, hip activation, knee, ankle and foot. W.E. I have focused on the ankle rocker, incorporating bounding, hopping, jumps, box, depth, vertical, fly runs.

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

April 26, 2011 at 2:49 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1118

Speedfirst at April 26, 2011 at 2:49 PM

W.E., I have been putting into practice some principles discussed here, again I will add more content to this discussion. In particular working on glute, ham, hip activation, knee, ankle and foot. W.E. I have focused on the ankle rocker, incorporating bounding, hopping, jumps, box, depth, vertical, fly runs.

It looks like you've been busy developing an active & reactive moment arm or simply stated, improving the quality in contact length.   Have you been able to quantify the disposition with this work?  Sighted movement efficiencies, faster performances, et cetera?

April 26, 2011 at 4:00 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6099

W.E., yes I have been busy developing an active & reactive moment arm and inproving the quality in contact length. Need I say as we both continue to experience this during the season, providing individual/specified training, due to the number of athletes.

 

I have been doing the individualized training during the summer with both my speed camp and track club, which adffords me both the time and opportunity. The link below is some of what we do. I am also looking always to determine the type of runner I have, quick/strength, pull/push runner, when that is established you have to arrange/have workouts that are specific to that type of runner.

 

 Speaking of pull/push type, I want the pull type, who will have better results. After all we're talking propulsion here, getting down the track/locomotion. Your push runner is going to be more quadricep oriented, which produce more vertical movement in oppose to horizontal, meaning you wll be slower in comparison to the pull runner, who is using more of the posterior chain , which includes, the hams, glutes and erectors.

 

The pull runners are much more efficient as well, due largely in part of the posterior chain pulling down the track. I have seen improvement in performance, speed, body alignment, confidence, both back and frontside mechanics.

 

http://evolutionaryathletics.com/blogs/exercise-index/

 

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

April 27, 2011 at 7:40 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1118

The website link that you provided was appreciated.   Like yourself , I've utilized work examples from Cressey and  Boyle in the past with varying results.   Key being as you mentioned individualization, along with variability.

April 28, 2011 at 12:23 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Real Talk
Member
Posts: 1274

Michael Johnson gave his explaination on Bolts speed.  MJ discussed the angles. Looking at the angles, really more focus should be given to this area, by more focus, I mean in particular to how it applies to propulsion.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/8679066.stm

 

April 28, 2011 at 1:42 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
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Posts: 6099

W.E. at April 28, 2011 at 12:23 AM

The website link that you provided was appreciated.   Like yourself , I've utilized work examples from Cressey and  Boyle in the past with varying results.   Key being as you mentioned individualization, along with variability.

W.E. I don't use much from Cressey and Boyle currently and it's been a few years really since I have.

 

Chris Korfist, a peer coach here in Illinois, we share things, Chris has a different approach than many coaches, we both have a similiar philosophy.

 

At the end of the day, we can employ a variety of techniques, different elements, etc., but if we cannot execute them to the point it brings about optimium performances on the track, we have failed, we being both the coach and athlete. I do think as coaches and to a large extent athletes, both know and understand the components required to getting faster.

 

There certainly are variables that come into play and as the title of this thread, sprint mechanics being a significant one. I'll use this as an analogy, a starving country or community, food has been delivered to the person in charge of distributing the food, but they have difficulty in getting it to them, no transportation, no map, no assistance, etc.

 

Let's say as the coach, we've done our part in bringing to the table those elements that we KNOW will produce desired results for our athletes,(that's our job)... ( strength training, sprint mechanics, proper nutrition, rest/recovery, mental focus, really the whone nine yards).... but as in the case of the above scenario, the athlete has difficulty in delivering or carrying this out, what next?

 

I believe that is the $64,000 question, what next? The search for what next. I really don't believe we have to continue to search, simply find a system that works for you, tweak that system, by adding and subtracting. Again it will come down to there isn't a cookie cutter, each athlete is different, but again as we know, there will be the time constraints that come into play.

 

I am of the opinion, that by and large, as coaches we are at times our worst enemy. We're constantly looking for ways to get better, we continue to bring more to the table and again not focusing nearly enough on those things currently on the table. We abandon somethings that we definitely shouldn't and conversely, keep things we should abandon, almost to the point of trying to reinvent the wheel. In other words, I really could've summed this up in one small sentence, " we complicate things".

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

April 29, 2011 at 7:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1118

Real Talk at April 28, 2011 at 1:42 PM

Michael Johnson gave his explaination on Bolts speed.  MJ discussed the angles. Looking at the angles, really more focus should be given to this area, by more focus, I mean in particular to how it applies to propulsion.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/8679066.stm

 

Since a constant of propulsion is impulse, which has a vector quantity, projected angles at the hip and knee have significance.   Though I believe the angles are a result of the directed energies throughout the kinetic chain.   Perhaps with Bolt he has such discipline within movement patterns that both contractile and elastic components in the contact arm are optimized to effect those angles.

I recently did a simplified kinetic analysis looking at the angular velocity of elite and non-elite female sprinters.   Though the data has range flaws it was interesting to see marginal differences in certain accelerative angles at the hip and knee.   Not much can be fully determined with 30Hz film however.

Though as in your post in another thread, which was well described by the way, these patterns can be learned and made to effect optimal positions (given possible restrictions of each individual) in almost all sprint phases.

It was interesting that in the video Johnson's vertical line for Carl Lewis (did I get that right?) is similar to that of Asafa Powell if drawn.   I do understand his point however.

April 29, 2011 at 12:22 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1118

A couple of good reads this summer to-date have been:

  • The Mechanics of Sprinting and Hurdling - Ralph Mann (2011 Ed.)
  • Strength Speed - Jan Melen

Both are easy to read (IMO) and are well illustrated.   Mann's book is fairly technical including some Newtonian interpretation and applied physical science.   However the data and concepts are derived from elite performances and, in most cases, limit to some degree certain non-elite capabilities.

Again good material if you wish to possibly understand what might be happening with the top sprint performers this summer.   Particularly with post-Worlds IAAF data and subsequent analyses.

July 15, 2011 at 11:57 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6099

W.E. Thanks again,...the link below and which also can go into the elite snippets thread, touches upon areas that will don't here much discussion on, muscle and tendon stiffness. Also good material with respect to what might be happening with the top sprinters this summer.

 

http://maximum-maximorum.com/2010/07/29/sprinting-and-the-muscle-tendon-complex-mtc/4/

 

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

July 16, 2011 at 12:37 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1118

I'm familiar with the "Sprinting & Elastic Strength" thesis that you highlighted and also felt that it was a good read as well.   As you know Speed, there is always some material that best describes a certain result and is termed useful to explain what we percieve or don't.

In addition, we as coaches are getting better with this material as it becomes easier to decipher and as mostly in your case (not particularly in mine), the results are magnified with proper work utilization adhering to those principles discussed.

I continue to learn but am also fascinated with the discussions that permeate from these discoveries/findings.   This summer and the next two will be very interesting to observe, God willing.

July 16, 2011 at 5:39 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6099

W.E. I am an agreement with you as coaches we are getting better with that material and deciphering it, including the Newtonian. I have implemented some of the principles in the sprinting & elastic this summer, I am truly focusing on strength, stored energy, in addition to these priniciples, as well as some aspects of the Newtonian.. Things are going well, we're making progress and looking forward to seeing the results begining in the indoor season and ultimately culminating at state.

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

July 16, 2011 at 9:51 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1118
Speed - are you familiar with Jeremy Richmond's Newtonian Sprint Model? And if you've utilized it, what conclusions if any have you come to to-date?
July 18, 2011 at 8:58 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
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Posts: 6099

W.E. at July 18, 2011 at 8:58 AM

Speed - are you familiar with Jeremy Richmond's Newtonian Sprint Model? And if you've utilized it, what conclusions if any have you come to to-date?

W.E. yes I am and yes I have utilized it and I am currently using it. I am haven’t used every vector, not to the point of the various ways of testing. It has been pretty easy to asses, my younger athletes, who will be juniors and sophomores, their strength index is low and as a result their ceiling is very high with respect to improvement. I am truly excited about the prospects, as I continue to implement these principles into my program.

 

 

On another note: I have just recently studied Marvin Bracy and I am truly impressed with this young athlete, in particular his 100m. I have yet to breakdown his 200m, but in breaking down his 100m, I see an excellent start, good reaction, very good block clearance, short levers with respect to his arm drive/carriage, which I see the correlation of that in his residual leg. Excellent backside mechanics, heel recovery, stiff touchdown leg, force application, force absorption, really impressed.

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

July 18, 2011 at 2:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1118
I concur regarding Bracy. All the points you hinted to are there with solid execution as well. I wish there was some 200+ film on him to screen further. I also liked some of the long sprinting characteristics from Hall @ NB and Lille.
July 19, 2011 at 6:01 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Real Talk
Member
Posts: 1274

Good discussions once again amigo's...W.E. check the other thread out, I'm sorry about just seeing this and summer has been here...my bad :(

July 21, 2011 at 12:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1118

Speed - getting back to Richmond's sprint model; When you performed the calcs did you find much variance between the step patterns during MaxV?   And if so, what did you attribute it to?

August 9, 2011 at 1:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6099

W.E. at August 9, 2011 at 1:15 PM

Speed - getting back to Richmond's sprint model; When you performed the calcs did you find much variance between the step patterns during MaxV?   And if so, what did you attribute it to?

W.E., it varied with respect to the variance on a couple of fronts....1.) depending upon the athlete and 2.) their level of fatigue..

 

What I attribute it to, is the work we have done in getting stronger in the hip area, hyper extended work.. stronger in the stablizing muscles, core, plyo's and cueing the movement/motions....I really place a great amount of attention/detail on training movement, specifcity.

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

August 9, 2011 at 7:05 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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