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W.E.
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Posts: 1101

Speedfirst at August 9, 2011 at 7:05 PM

W.E. at August 9, 2011 at 1:15 PM

Speed - getting back to Richmond's sprint model; When you performed the calcs did you find much variance between the step patterns during MaxV?   And if so, what did you attribute it to?

W.E., it varied with respect to the variance on a couple of fronts....1.) depending upon the athlete and 2.) their level of fatigue..

 

What I attribute it to, is the work we have done in getting stronger in the hip area, hyper extended work.. stronger in the stablizing muscles, core, plyo's and cueing the movement/motions....I really place a great amount of attention/detail on training movement, specifcity.

Have you ever considered that's athlete's structural alignment and used off-track expertise to correct posture?   If so, what was your result and the length of time required for a difference to be effective? 

August 9, 2011 at 9:17 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
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Posts: 6090

W.E. at August 9, 2011 at 9:17 PM

Speedfirst at August 9, 2011 at 7:05 PM

W.E. at August 9, 2011 at 1:15 PM

Speed - getting back to Richmond's sprint model; When you performed the calcs did you find much variance between the step patterns during MaxV?   And if so, what did you attribute it to?

W.E., it varied with respect to the variance on a couple of fronts....1.) depending upon the athlete and 2.) their level of fatigue..

 

What I attribute it to, is the work we have done in getting stronger in the hip area, hyper extended work.. stronger in the stablizing muscles, core, plyo's and cueing the movement/motions....I really place a great amount of attention/detail on training movement, specifcity.

Have you ever considered that's athlete's structural alignment and used off-track expertise to correct posture?   If so, what was your result and the length of time required for a difference to be effective? 

Sure have.....very good results and actually my high jumper is my very best and prime example, he's my horizontal jumper as well.

 

Typically we're looking at  a month to 2 months, we start during the offseason going into preseason and through out the season. I have certainly gotten some results with my sprinters as well, especially those with a higher ceiling.

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

August 9, 2011 at 10:00 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1101

Result consistency and ideal specific running mechanics.   I'd say, aside from Gatlin, you'd have a hard case not to include Michael Rodgers.   Given his stature and lower body anthropometrics, he currently is demonstrating some reasonable world class results.


USATF Nationals 


Semis: 9.80 w. +2.4 / 9.91c

45.5 ground contacts - CLav:2.2m (2.197)


Finals: 10.09 w. -1.7 / 9.98c

45.5 ground contacts - CLav:2.2m (2.197)


Simply outstanding dynamic sprint works by Rodgers.   True pendulum swing with frontside dominance.   I would love to come across some 100Hz film of those races!   By the way, Ryan Bailey's excursions took him a full forty-six ground contacts.


For added measure he basically displayed similar results in Lausanne with fairly normal wind conditions.   Though I'm one that believes air density can have certain other effects aside from wind speed.   However I'm most impressed with the strength of these athletes given the relative strong assistance/resistance of those results last week.


And Gatlin?   I would suspect that if you measured his race from Lausanne in similar fashion to Rodgers, you would probably find similar ratios (CLav:#GC, CLmax:GCt) as well.   Allowing for anthropometric differences of course.

July 4, 2014 at 1:00 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
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Posts: 6090

 

W.E. Rodgers is looking impressive and his performance indicate that, even that 10.0 in Paris. His load vector:

 

1) Axial

2) Anteroposterior

3) Lateromedial

4) Posteroanterior

5) Torsional

6) Axial/Anteroposterior Blend

 

I believe in these areas, have improved as well in direct relationship to what you mentioned, Rodgers stature and lower body anthropometrics. In considering Gatlin, he looks as fit, as ever and I would suggest his load vector, is equal to that of Rodgers in each area and maybe superior in some.

 

Bailey, I think is lacking in his load vector, as you can see some mechanicals flaws, in the beginning of his race, that certainly impacts/effects his entire race. Posture wise, as well as technically, both Rodgers and Gatlin look better this year, than in the past. There is a correlation I believe between ground contact, force application, and posture/technique.

 

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

July 7, 2014 at 12:16 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1101

Speed - I can see your rational conclusion of load vector efficiencies/deficiencies as cause & effect with their results.   Given that Bailey, for example, is 1.93m in stature and only resulting in a contact length to body length ratio of 1.12 might ring some sort of concern bell!   Gatlin and Rodgers presently would be considered outstanding assuming ratios of 1.22 and slightly higher.   Bolt was 1.27+ during his 2008-2009 reign.


Of course, as you alluded to, there are several factors that possibly inhibit certain world class athletes from optimal biomechanical levels.   And since force production and intrinsic musclo-skeletal strength are strongly related to ground contact and contact length, the case you make is very viable.


These are simply random thoughts on my part.   But I've seriously considered all aspects as it relates to training and analyzing weaknesses, as well as, strengths.   The concepts of load vector is an interesting approach to perhaps why certain newtonian results are what they might be with my athletes.

July 7, 2014 at 6:37 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
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Posts: 6090

W.E. I have enjoyed our dialogue, discussions over the years, truly much benefit has been gained from them. Of course I respect your observations, there certainly are many factors, variables under consideration. The load vector, as I view it, really for me, takes into account the entire volume of what to consider with respect to influencing movement across the planes. Now what we do with respect training, workouts, is another story, as it would be looking at training for example, the anaerobic pathway and deciding on the various avenues to take.

 

As load vector is considered, along with the other factors in helping to analyze, detect and correct flaws. Load vector being that huge umbrella of which to ultilize.

 

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

July 10, 2014 at 1:49 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1101

It would assume that Ryan Bailey has been doing some work since we looked on him last year.   From the most recent Jamaica Invitational performance @ 9.93:


~44.25 ground contacts - SLav: 2.2 (2.25)


Though the step-to-body length ratios might need greater exploring to ultimately measure with Bolt, Gatlin, et al.   With practically similar step length numbers, in that same race, the difference for Powell had to be related to smaller contact/aerial times at critical junctions.

--


May 14, 2015 at 7:42 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6090

W.E. at May 14, 2015 at 7:42 AM

It would assume that Ryan Bailey has been doing some work since we looked on him last year.   From the most recent Jamaica Invitational performance @ 9.93:


~44.25 ground contacts - SLav: 2.2 (2.25)


Though the step-to-body length ratios might need greater exploring to ultimately measure with Bolt, Gatlin, et al.   With practically similar step length numbers, in that same race, the difference for Powell had to be related to smaller contact/aerial times at critical junctions.

Yes he has, I would think that with a better start, that ground contacts might be slighty different.

I don't think Ryan is working as much with John, he is working with his high school coach as well. I truly hope his work ethics have improved and if he can stay healthy, work on that start and transition, he'll certainly continue to improve on his overall race, resulting in improved times.

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

May 15, 2015 at 10:32 AM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1101

Just saw Gatlin's race from Doha.   What magnificent display of sprinting.   Wish I could find some 200+ Hz video of his performance to do some rudimentary calculus.


https://youtu.be/hcYJXY1Cz1Y?t=38


From what I took statistically from the race:

~43.75 ground contacts SLav: 2.3m (2.29)


With a very smooth 1.23+ step-to-body length ratio.   Given his relative common height and weight for today's elite sprinters, I would be very curious to see both horizontal and vertical force peaks for a peformance like that.


No doubt he rivals all-time measured minimal contact times, as well as minimal flight time.   Non-essential deviations associated with required movement oscillations, on appearance, seem very small to me.


Thoughts?

--


May 15, 2015 at 2:50 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6090

W.E. at May 15, 2015 at 2:50 PM

Just saw Gatlin's race from Doha.   What magnificent display of sprinting.   Wish I could find some 200+ Hz video of his performance to do some rudimentary calculus.


https://youtu.be/hcYJXY1Cz1Y?t=38


From what I took statistically from the race:

~43.75 ground contacts SLav: 2.3m (2.29)


With a very smooth 1.23+ step-to-body length ratio.   Given his relative common height and weight for today's elite sprinters, I would be very curious to see both horizontal and vertical force peaks for a peformance like that.


No doubt he rivals all-time measured minimal contact times, as well as minimal flight time.   Non-essential deviations associated with required movement oscillations, on appearance, seem very small to me.


Thoughts?

W.E. just consider as well, Gatlin reaction time, wasn't the best and his start was average, were those two areas better, we see an even faster time I believe. In addition to that his drive phase and transition, also reaching top end speed, was very impressive.

 

What I noticed also, in his maintenance phase, his posture wasn't as upright, you could see a slight lean, this in opinion affected his hip extension,  hip rotation, knee lift, impacting his time as well. To run a PB of 9.74 in mid May is impressive.

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

May 20, 2015 at 10:58 AM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1101

Yes I noticed that with Gatlin, and Powell's JamInv race as well.   A larger increase in backward upper leg (thigh) angle with respect to vertical body positioning given distance/time.   The eccentric phase, as you noted, did seem rushed; for lack of a better description.


Was this more a function of neuro-muscular fatigue?   Or more in Gatlin's case, some slight asynchronous step/recovery event due to the very high ground forces being applied.

--


May 20, 2015 at 1:20 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
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Posts: 6090

W.E. at May 20, 2015 at 1:20 PM

Yes I noticed that with Gatlin, and Powell's JamInv race as well.   A larger increase in backward upper leg (thigh) angle with respect to vertical body positioning given distance/time.   The eccentric phase, as you noted, did seem rushed; for lack of a better description.


Was this more a function of neuro-muscular fatigue?   Or more in Gatlin's case, some slight asynchronous step/recovery event due to the very high ground forces being applied.

W.E. I think what we might be able to attribute this to in the case of Asafa and Gat, both with new coaches, granted Asafa has worked with Donovan before, but not as his primary coach.

 

But I believe they both have a different race model, we'll still in mid May, some heavy training may still be going on, for both of them and in particular Gat to have run so fast, this early, Gat's being the fastest time ever this early, had some impact on how they technically executed their and in particular the maintenance, which in my opinion is the most difficult phase to master and execute.

 

We should improvement in this area going forward, as they both become more acclimated to their coaches and vice versa.

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

May 20, 2015 at 1:42 PM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1101

You are correct that those were performances perhaps not expected at this time in the season.   Though I realize the sprint mechanical nuances that I referred to occur in mostly all sprinters - elite and otherwise.   Perhaps a bit more (negative thigh recovery action & rear-foot casting) or sooner during performance in developmental and non-elite athletes.


I use to attribute those actions to simply laboring effects with anaerobic fatigue.   Though in study I realize that there might be more of a neurosynaptic event (bio-chemical>mechanical) than simply localized energy depletion or deficiency.   As you mentioned however, these can mostly be solved with continued screening and timely corrective execution.


Has Gatlin left the Dennis Mitchell group (Star Athletics)?

--


May 21, 2015 at 9:47 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6090

W.E. at May 21, 2015 at 9:47 AM

You are correct that those were performances perhaps not expected at this time in the season.   Though I realize the sprint mechanical nuances that I referred to occur in mostly all sprinters - elite and otherwise.   Perhaps a bit more (negative thigh recovery action & rear-foot casting) or sooner during performance in developmental and non-elite athletes.


I use to attribute those actions to simply laboring effects with anaerobic fatigue.   Though in study I realize that there might be more of a neurosynaptic event (bio-chemical>mechanical) than simply localized energy depletion or deficiency.   As you mentioned however, these can mostly be solved with continued screening and timely corrective execution.


Has Gatlin left the Dennis Mitchell group (Star Athletics)?

Gat has not left Mitchell...Gatlin is having a stellar year so far 9.74...19.68 and 9.75. I firmly believe he'll improve on those times as he has room to improve in his performance, with respect to possibly ever area/segment of his race, in particular the 100m..

 

Starting with initial ground contact, toe off, really the entire sprint cycle as it relates to the sprint fundamentals. As I shared on another forum, Gat has hardly run the perfect 100m race and as such, there is room for improvement.

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

June 5, 2015 at 9:49 AM Flag Quote & Reply

W.E.
Member
Posts: 1101

This has simply been an outstanding phase of non-critical performance for Gatlin.   Worlds will certainly be very interesting...irregardless of Bolt et al.

--


June 5, 2015 at 5:14 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Speedfirst
Site Owner
Posts: 6090

W.E. at June 5, 2015 at 5:14 PM

This has simply been an outstanding phase of non-critical performance for Gatlin.   Worlds will certainly be very interesting...irregardless of Bolt et al.

Gatlin, as I shared with someone the other day, has I what I believe, a huge chip on his shoulder. There are many who doubted him upon his return, who still question his times, with respect to him doping, as that is another discussion entirely of it self.

 

But again I do believe, he is motivated to run in the way he has and as such his training reflects this, his drive, hunger, thirst is evident and yes Worlds will certainly be very interesting.

--

For me to live is Christ, but to die is gain Phil. 1:21

 

 

June 8, 2015 at 9:07 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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